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I'm Cheyenne Turner and I'm going to be

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the moderator for the research

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researchers involved with the abductions

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and I would like to explain just a

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little bit of how I got involved with

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some of this field

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I was president of a group in Dallas the

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move line Metroplex for about four years

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and I would get many many calls from

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abductees who are in a great deal of

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pain

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didn't know who to go to

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and just needed someone you know to hear

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their story and that's how I originally

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met Carla

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and I remember when

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um she and her husband were sitting in

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my living room giving me their story and

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obviously in a great deal of distress

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and I helped them find someone to go to

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to do the you know the hypnosis and

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regressions and I know that um

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the researchers really give a great deal

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of their time and effort and I think

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they're really to be commended because

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it takes a lot of understanding

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and I think that we all owe them a great

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deal of things

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[Applause]

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what they're going to be doing is

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introducing themselves giving a little

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bit of their background and what their

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research involves

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so we will start

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on this end with Forest Crawford

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I made Linda sit in the middle so she'd

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get all the attention too

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I talked a lot about symbol stuff

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earlier so you know that I like

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controversial correlations or

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correlations in general but what may not

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have been evident is that I'm very

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involved in the abduction research as

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well and uh have a training as a

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hypnotherapist extensive background in

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ufology so to speak I've been doing it

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for a long time that's kind of what I

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bring to the abduction research

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phenomenon and have worked with

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abductees essentially in the St Louis

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area but all over the country as well

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and a lot of the information that I

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present comes from their experiences in

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fact almost all of it does except for

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when I tell you it's something weird

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that happened to me

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and it comes from their experiences and

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the correlations that come out of that

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work and the communications in there so

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I Rely heavily on my relationship with

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with the abduction and contact

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experiencers if you will that I work

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with

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because they're the ones that are

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bringing the pieces together we're just

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kind of helping them realize that that's

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well it was the animal mutilations that

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led me to human abductions the two I

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think are related uh in relationship to

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the phenomenons intrusion on the planet

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and

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um I've never been actively involved in

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terms of the therapy side

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or the hypnosis side but what happened

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is that because I was doing programs

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that were relating to the subject matter

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I began to be a lightning rod for people

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sending me audio cassettes and letters

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and at this point it seems like hundreds

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of drawings

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because they wanted to be able to share

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something with someone

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that they felt that they could at least

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uh I guess and whether it was

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anonymously or uh giving me their name

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and their number sharing experiences and

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now uh over time it seems that what has

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been valuable from my point of view in

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research is that totally apart from

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hypnosis I have been seeing these

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patterns that are emerging from dozens

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and dozens and dozens of people from all

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over the United States

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some are also coming from South America

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and I'm seeing the same drawings from

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people who don't know each other and

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live on two different coasts and I I

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hope that there is some value value in

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contributing these patterns in this

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evolving alien taxonomy that I am trying

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to continue to gather because it may be

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that there might be screen memories as

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some people suggest and that they manage

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three might be something that's testing

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us on the other hand Occam's razor would

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suggest that if you go for the simplest

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possible answer or reason for why there

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is this pattern of similar descriptions

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it's because there are actually

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different whatever they are involved in

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various people's lives and that is an

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area of research that that provokes me

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in this huge phenomenon that includes

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many facets as we've been discussing the

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my name is John Carpenter and I have the

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position in the mutual UFO network of

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director of abduction research uh it's I

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was just thinking here it's real

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interesting five years ago I came as a

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naive listener and was learning from

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people like Linda about what all was

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going on and today it felt more like a

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family reunion I knew everybody up here

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that spoke today they all knew me and I

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knew so many people out there in the

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audience so this is becoming less of a

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conference and more of a reunion every

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year

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uh anyway I got into all of this because

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I volunteered and uh I thought it would

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be interesting if one day I might get to

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sit in on one case and uh it kind of

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went uh the other way

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um have a lot of people sit in on my

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sessions

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which are are now probably uh oh several

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hundred

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I work in Springfield as a licensed

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clinical social worker and had training

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in hypnosis and it's been a real

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interesting Journey uh like everyone has

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said today we don't know where all it's

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going but I'm in it now for the ride and

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I'm fascinated with everything that

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comes up

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and part of my position now is to try to

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get other mental health professionals

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helping and helping in the right way

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because there's obviously as you've

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heard here today A real need and we

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don't want just anybody you know trying

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to take this on and and providing the

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help because it's a it's a special kind

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of help as you've heard from the uh as I

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will call them participants in this

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Odyssey that were up here a few minutes

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ago

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uh they need a special kind of

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understanding this is such a unique and

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bizarre phenomenon and you just can't go

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in a 50-minute hour with some

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psychologists and expect to unravel it

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all and it's just it just requires you

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know many hours uh last weekend when I

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was with John in Atlanta and but and

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David Jacobson and we were talking about

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even when Bud Hopkins does and we all

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spend like uh three to four hours each

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time we meet with somebody because it

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just requires that much support and and

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and and just effort uh and the hypnosis

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uh just to go carefully and do

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everything right and and so it's real

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important that other professionals just

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don't jump in thinking oh this is

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something new and interesting I'll just

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fit it into my little schedule it

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doesn't work that way

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um so I think that as we've been doing

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the the conferences that came out of the

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Europa Report

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in taking roughly 100 mental health

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professionals at a time around the

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country and really trying to give them

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the best information the best ideas of

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how to help ironically I think a lot of

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those professionals that show up are

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showing up because they've already had

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experiences

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they've told us that a lot of times so

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uh you know the numbers in the Roper

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poll are probably exactly right and and

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as we were saying uh perhaps very

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conservative numbers so obviously

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there's a need out there and I find

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myself really trying to help I get calls

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from California and Minnesota and

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Florida all in one night

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which is hard when my four-year-old is

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tugging on my leg and wanting me to go

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play a game with him so it's been a real

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challenge but there's no way I'm going

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to quit there's no way I'm going to stop

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it has to be seen through all the way

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yeah uh I'm John Mack I won't um uh

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burden you with another speech I

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I guess the

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what I cannot resist saying is how

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profoundly entering this field changes

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everything in your life

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um personal uh professional

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your energy systems

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um I one of the things I want to mention

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John talked about the fact that you need

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to set aside three or four hours well

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there's a big economic aspect of this uh

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most psychiatrists are set up or other

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mental health professionals to do one

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hour the reimbursement structure only

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reimburses for one hour and people just

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can't afford this and I think one of the

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things this is forcing us to do is to

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examine the rather rigid structure of

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the Mental Health Professions with

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regard to therapy and treatment if you

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were

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in a due a 45-minute hypnosis session or

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a whole session you've only left 50

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minutes it's a little bit like a surgeon

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who goes in to do a resection of a piece

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of the bowel and gets uh gets it out and

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looks his watches as well as 50 minutes

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there's no time for sewing up here we'll

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just leave the person with the abdomen

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open and uh you know leave I mean that

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that's it has pointed out the uh the way

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in which our profession is structured

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not according to human need but

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according to the convenience of the

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therapist and I think that has to be

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looked at differently the other thing

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that it's changed for me is the whole

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notion that there is such a thing as an

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expert who knows something and then this

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person who has this problem that's all

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changing uh working with abductees is

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totally non-hierarchical they know

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something and if I can help facilitate

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that knowledge and learn from that and

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be of use then that's what happens but

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that's not the model of the old doctor

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interpatient hierarchical model so it's

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forcing me to totally re-examine the

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whole model of how I do treatment and

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therapy not just in this area but how

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our profession is structured so it I

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think this this work has the possibility

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showing us ways of reforming and

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restructuring how we do uh

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support counseling therapy whatever you

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want to call it in the in the Mental

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Health Professions

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okay

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before I say anything I'd like to say

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that it's wonderful to have an end to

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the old patient doctor hierarchy I think

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I can speak for many patients out there

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so thank you

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I think I may be the only one on this

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stage who came into this research

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because of the experiences my family and

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I were going through and like Cheyenne

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said we did get to someone who gave us

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extremely valuable help when we needed

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it and

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I also want to say thank you to the

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folks who are trying to educate our

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mental health professionals because I

279
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:03,180
did turn to those in the community where

280
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:06,000
we lived every single one of them none

281
00:12:09,829 --> 00:12:07,680
of them would work with us

282
00:12:12,170 --> 00:12:09,839
it was something that they would be left

283
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:12,180
out of the profession for doing

284
00:12:15,470 --> 00:12:14,160
and I hope that you can reach all of

285
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,480
these people and I want to give you a

286
00:12:23,090 --> 00:12:17,279
specific name and address to include on

287
00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:25,550
this being the case where we were and

288
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:27,360
for a lot of people where you are we had

289
00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:29,279
to turn to each other to other people in

290
00:12:34,009 --> 00:12:32,040
this predicament for help and found some

291
00:12:35,690 --> 00:12:34,019
excellent help I will not say we had to

292
00:12:36,829 --> 00:12:35,700
settle for it I think we were lucky to

293
00:12:38,810 --> 00:12:36,839
get it

294
00:12:41,090 --> 00:12:38,820
but in the course of working through

295
00:12:43,970 --> 00:12:41,100
what my family and I had been through

296
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:43,980
I developed an association with the

297
00:12:48,829 --> 00:12:47,040
researcher working with us and became as

298
00:12:50,569 --> 00:12:48,839
much of an assistant as I could in her

299
00:12:53,090 --> 00:12:50,579
research and have continued to do that

300
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:53,100
to this day I am not the primary

301
00:12:57,290 --> 00:12:55,440
hypnotist believe me but I make sure the

302
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:57,300
people who want regression who ask for

303
00:13:01,129 --> 00:12:59,040
regression do have someone that they can

304
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:01,139
go to that I trust with my life and with

305
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:04,079
my children I wouldn't recommend anyone

306
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:06,000
that I didn't have very good

307
00:13:09,050 --> 00:13:07,680
recommendations from people they had

308
00:13:11,629 --> 00:13:09,060
already worked with and I think that's

309
00:13:14,410 --> 00:13:11,639
important for any of you to know about

310
00:13:17,449 --> 00:13:14,420
secondly it being

311
00:13:18,949 --> 00:13:17,459
a backdoor researcher and a front door

312
00:13:20,930 --> 00:13:18,959
abductee I'm in a very different

313
00:13:23,090 --> 00:13:20,940
position from a lot of the researchers

314
00:13:25,009 --> 00:13:23,100
because I have a very personal stake in

315
00:13:26,870 --> 00:13:25,019
how the research goes

316
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:26,880
and therefore perhaps some of my

317
00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:28,079
feelings are going to be a little bit

318
00:13:32,030 --> 00:13:30,000
different than the others that you will

319
00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:32,040
have heard or will hear

320
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:34,800
I do find that I can sit outside as the

321
00:13:38,930 --> 00:13:36,720
abductee and look at the researchers as

322
00:13:40,730 --> 00:13:38,940
you guys and say why are you guys doing

323
00:13:43,069 --> 00:13:40,740
this or doing that and why aren't you

324
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:43,079
doing this or doing that and then on the

325
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,120
other hand other abductees are

326
00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:47,519
experiencers who come to us

327
00:13:51,410 --> 00:13:49,920
put me in the position of the researcher

328
00:13:54,190 --> 00:13:51,420
trying to make sense they want some

329
00:13:56,930 --> 00:13:54,200
answers some solutions some explanations

330
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:56,940
and I'm back on the other side of the

331
00:14:01,250 --> 00:13:58,800
fence here so I can sympathize from both

332
00:14:03,230 --> 00:14:01,260
ways and and I can tell you in my

333
00:14:04,790 --> 00:14:03,240
opinion on both sides of the fence the

334
00:14:06,350 --> 00:14:04,800
researchers need to get their acts

335
00:14:08,829 --> 00:14:06,360
together a little bit better on some

336
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:08,839
things there is too much

337
00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:11,760
jealousy there is too much hoarding of

338
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:14,820
information and while researchers fight

339
00:14:18,590 --> 00:14:17,040
over these things abductees go on going

340
00:14:20,449 --> 00:14:18,600
through these experiences not getting

341
00:14:22,670 --> 00:14:20,459
anywhere so I think we've got to have to

342
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:22,680
clean the whole act up a bit

343
00:14:27,769 --> 00:14:25,680
secondly on the the side of whether

344
00:14:29,930 --> 00:14:27,779
which we've heard raised here the past

345
00:14:31,850 --> 00:14:29,940
two days the question of good aliens bad

346
00:14:34,009 --> 00:14:31,860
aliens good experiences bad experiences

347
00:14:36,410 --> 00:14:34,019
good abductees bad abductees and it's

348
00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:36,420
come to that in many cases from the

349
00:14:40,670 --> 00:14:39,000
research that the researcher I work with

350
00:14:43,569 --> 00:14:40,680
is Barbara barthelik from the research

351
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:43,579
of well into the hundreds of cases

352
00:14:48,370 --> 00:14:46,800
approximately 500 including those that I

353
00:14:50,689 --> 00:14:48,380
have worked with and have brought

354
00:14:52,250 --> 00:14:50,699
research and investigative material into

355
00:14:55,250 --> 00:14:52,260
the fund from

356
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:55,260
we see that you cannot say if you're

357
00:15:00,350 --> 00:14:57,360
going to be true to the data you cannot

358
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:00,360
say that a person's experiences when

359
00:15:05,930 --> 00:15:02,639
they have an encounter reflect that

360
00:15:08,509 --> 00:15:05,940
person's inner being that person's moral

361
00:15:10,069 --> 00:15:08,519
strength or lack of it that person's

362
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:10,079
spiritual Evolution or lack of it

363
00:15:14,509 --> 00:15:12,480
because as Leah pointed out the same

364
00:15:16,370 --> 00:15:14,519
person can have a positive experience

365
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:16,380
one time and a negative one the next

366
00:15:22,550 --> 00:15:18,959
time and this is the same person

367
00:15:24,769 --> 00:15:22,560
so there is an objective reality that is

368
00:15:27,170 --> 00:15:24,779
different in some experiences from

369
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:27,180
others no matter who's experiencing them

370
00:15:32,030 --> 00:15:29,519
and if I had to stake anything right now

371
00:15:33,769 --> 00:15:32,040
which is a bad thing to do to put money

372
00:15:35,870 --> 00:15:33,779
on the table on any answers to these

373
00:15:38,329 --> 00:15:35,880
questions right now the things I would

374
00:15:41,389 --> 00:15:38,339
feel strongest on putting money on are

375
00:15:43,850 --> 00:15:41,399
that there are a variety of alien types

376
00:15:45,889 --> 00:15:43,860
although we have many cases where two or

377
00:15:47,530 --> 00:15:45,899
more types are involved in a person's

378
00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:47,540
abduction as if they're working together

379
00:15:52,069 --> 00:15:49,920
we don't know what that means but we

380
00:15:54,050 --> 00:15:52,079
know that some of the experiences are so

381
00:15:57,410 --> 00:15:54,060
intrinsically different that there seem

382
00:15:59,629 --> 00:15:57,420
to be many agendas not just one

383
00:16:01,550 --> 00:15:59,639
so you can't put a good label or bad

384
00:16:03,290 --> 00:16:01,560
label on the entirety when you have

385
00:16:04,430 --> 00:16:03,300
diverse things that are not in the same

386
00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:04,440
pot

387
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:06,600
I think the one thing we the research

388
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:08,160
shows is that there are many things

389
00:16:12,290 --> 00:16:10,079
going on that don't fit the patterns

390
00:16:13,970 --> 00:16:12,300
that are nice neat patterns if you look

391
00:16:15,769 --> 00:16:13,980
at just what one group is doing you're

392
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,779
going to get some patterns if you pull

393
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:17,519
in what's happening to everybody you're

394
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:18,959
going to get some things that won't fit

395
00:16:23,810 --> 00:16:21,600
in any category or any pattern so

396
00:16:25,790 --> 00:16:23,820
looking for neat answers I think is a

397
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:25,800
limiting way to approach it from what

398
00:16:29,810 --> 00:16:27,120
the people we've worked with have

399
00:16:31,850 --> 00:16:29,820
experienced and trying to put everything

400
00:16:32,990 --> 00:16:31,860
into one pot is defeating because you're

401
00:16:34,730 --> 00:16:33,000
not going to get everything in there

402
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:34,740
without chopping off somebody's arms or

403
00:16:38,449 --> 00:16:36,480
legs or other experience that doesn't

404
00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:38,459
fit the mold

405
00:16:41,870 --> 00:16:39,360
um

406
00:16:45,470 --> 00:16:41,880
other than that I open for questions

407
00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:48,110
okay thank you we're now going to open

408
00:16:52,430 --> 00:16:50,820
the floor for questions if you'd like to

409
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,440
come up to the microphone

410
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:54,240
and um

411
00:16:57,470 --> 00:16:56,160
present

412
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:57,480
your question

413
00:17:00,650 --> 00:16:59,279
and do try to make them as brief as

414
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:00,660
possible

415
00:17:06,049 --> 00:17:02,639
mm-hmm

416
00:17:07,250 --> 00:17:06,059
I guess this will be for anybody a lot

417
00:17:09,049 --> 00:17:07,260
of the speakers have said something

418
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:09,059
about the environmental damage that

419
00:17:14,090 --> 00:17:11,760
we're doing to the planet and how the

420
00:17:26,890 --> 00:17:14,100
aliens feel about that and I'd like to

421
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:31,310
it's not that the aliens you know always

422
00:17:37,970 --> 00:17:35,039
tell them consciously you know you need

423
00:17:39,890 --> 00:17:37,980
to clean this up or do this it it it's

424
00:17:42,289 --> 00:17:39,900
interesting it seems like there's an

425
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,299
effect that definitely takes place so

426
00:17:47,570 --> 00:17:44,640
many people have had these experiences

427
00:17:51,890 --> 00:17:47,580
are are so much more in tune with with

428
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:51,900
nature Gene who you heard up here Gene

429
00:17:57,770 --> 00:17:55,280
Robinson when I was working with her

430
00:17:59,750 --> 00:17:57,780
soon after some of her first

431
00:18:03,110 --> 00:17:59,760
Recollections that she was having these

432
00:18:05,570 --> 00:18:03,120
experiences she saw a turtle crossing

433
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:05,580
the road and she was just kind of

434
00:18:11,710 --> 00:18:08,880
watching it and marveling at it and and

435
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:11,720
with new eyes so to speak with new eyes

436
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:15,360
and here came a car down the road and

437
00:18:20,029 --> 00:18:17,280
instead of swearing to miss it it

438
00:18:23,150 --> 00:18:20,039
swerved to hit the turtle and it just

439
00:18:25,850 --> 00:18:23,160
tore her up that it happened and she

440
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:25,860
never reacted that way before and with

441
00:18:30,529 --> 00:18:27,120
so many people have been through this

442
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,539
experience there is such a keen

443
00:18:35,090 --> 00:18:32,400
um

444
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:35,100
phenomena that happens that tune them

445
00:18:39,950 --> 00:18:38,400
into nature I don't know where exactly

446
00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:39,960
it comes from whether it's like directly

447
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:41,760
told to them or it's just part of the

448
00:18:46,370 --> 00:18:43,440
experience or what but there is

449
00:18:47,870 --> 00:18:46,380
definitely a phenomenon there so it's

450
00:18:49,850 --> 00:18:47,880
hard to answer in terms of whether

451
00:18:54,110 --> 00:18:49,860
they're told anything specifically to do

452
00:19:00,289 --> 00:18:57,470
one thing that I've noticed is that

453
00:19:02,510 --> 00:19:00,299
there will be a little bit like the time

454
00:19:05,330 --> 00:19:02,520
release capsules

455
00:19:07,310 --> 00:19:05,340
two weeks ago within a four hour period

456
00:19:08,930 --> 00:19:07,320
at night I had a phone call from four

457
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:08,940
different abductees

458
00:19:13,130 --> 00:19:11,280
and each one of them there was someone

459
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:13,140
in Oregon there was one in New Jersey

460
00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:15,200
there was one in Pennsylvania

461
00:19:21,770 --> 00:19:18,720
I think the other one was in Maryland

462
00:19:26,210 --> 00:19:21,780
each one was just calling independently

463
00:19:27,890 --> 00:19:26,220
to say Linda last night I had the only

464
00:19:31,310 --> 00:19:27,900
way I could describe it was a virtual

465
00:19:34,010 --> 00:19:31,320
reality dream and

466
00:19:37,250 --> 00:19:34,020
Debbie the Kathy Davis carried Debbie

467
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:37,260
Tomy in Illinois she was also I talked

468
00:19:42,049 --> 00:19:39,120
with her about that time

469
00:19:44,029 --> 00:19:42,059
well I had not heard the term from an

470
00:19:48,590 --> 00:19:44,039
abductee about having a virtual reality

471
00:19:51,529 --> 00:19:48,600
dream before a couple of weeks ago in

472
00:19:54,650 --> 00:19:51,539
one night four people calling me

473
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:54,660
and the way that they were explaining it

474
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:57,360
one woman said it's like I'm inside of a

475
00:20:02,510 --> 00:20:00,240
Nintendo game three-dimensional in color

476
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:02,520
only the content in the subject matter

477
00:20:07,970 --> 00:20:04,799
of what they were describing all had to

478
00:20:09,770 --> 00:20:07,980
do with earthquakes volcanoes and high

479
00:20:11,810 --> 00:20:09,780
winds

480
00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:11,820
um the first time that I had heard about

481
00:20:19,850 --> 00:20:17,340
the high wind dreams was in 1989 then

482
00:20:22,370 --> 00:20:19,860
there were more people in 1990 who were

483
00:20:24,289 --> 00:20:22,380
saying they were having dreams not vivid

484
00:20:26,750 --> 00:20:24,299
dreams or not this three-dimensional

485
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:26,760
color feeling but they were having

486
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:28,799
dreams about seeing the planet being

487
00:20:33,070 --> 00:20:31,919
swept with increasingly higher higher

488
00:20:36,529 --> 00:20:33,080
winds

489
00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:36,539
worse storms the volcanoes have already

490
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:37,980
already always been there in the

491
00:20:41,870 --> 00:20:39,120
earthquakes

492
00:20:44,270 --> 00:20:41,880
well over this evolution of the years

493
00:20:47,150 --> 00:20:44,280
when you suddenly would get on a night

494
00:20:49,490 --> 00:20:47,160
or two nights this pattern of abductees

495
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:49,500
calling from all over the country I

496
00:20:54,049 --> 00:20:51,600
began to wonder about this this release

497
00:20:55,370 --> 00:20:54,059
of information and these changes there

498
00:20:58,010 --> 00:20:55,380
have been lots of arguments about

499
00:20:59,510 --> 00:20:58,020
whether the so-called screens that

500
00:21:01,610 --> 00:20:59,520
abductees have been presented about

501
00:21:04,850 --> 00:21:01,620
seeing the earth going through some kind

502
00:21:07,549 --> 00:21:04,860
of huge cataclysm was this a test or is

503
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:07,559
this something being shown in the future

504
00:21:14,150 --> 00:21:10,559
regardless of what is the truth or not

505
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:14,160
the truth there is a fact that abductees

506
00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:17,280
are around the country at certain times

507
00:21:23,150 --> 00:21:21,480
seem to get releases in dreams or vivid

508
00:21:25,610 --> 00:21:23,160
dreams or now they're saying virtual

509
00:21:27,529 --> 00:21:25,620
reality dreams as if it's taking on a

510
00:21:31,549 --> 00:21:27,539
whole new character right now just

511
00:21:33,770 --> 00:21:31,559
suddenly and every time that there is

512
00:21:35,450 --> 00:21:33,780
this new agitation among the abductees

513
00:21:39,049 --> 00:21:35,460
that I know and stay in touch with me

514
00:21:40,909 --> 00:21:39,059
there always seems to be the boss the

515
00:21:42,409 --> 00:21:40,919
common denominator has to do with

516
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:42,419
something having to do with the planet

517
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:44,159
Earth

518
00:21:50,990 --> 00:21:46,799
um where this is going to head and lead

519
00:21:52,909 --> 00:21:51,000
I don't know but something seems to work

520
00:21:58,909 --> 00:21:52,919
at some subconscious level or other

521
00:22:02,810 --> 00:22:00,830
I just want to add a little bit to what

522
00:22:05,710 --> 00:22:02,820
John was saying also

523
00:22:09,289 --> 00:22:05,720
that many of the experiencers

524
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:09,299
develop sensitivities to a multitude of

525
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:11,520
different kinds of energies and natural

526
00:22:15,770 --> 00:22:13,919
phenomenon as well because of their

527
00:22:17,330 --> 00:22:15,780
experience which which goes along with

528
00:22:19,909 --> 00:22:17,340
what John was saying about their

529
00:22:22,010 --> 00:22:19,919
Attunement to the planet becomes very

530
00:22:26,450 --> 00:22:22,020
sharp they can sense earthquakes coming

531
00:22:30,529 --> 00:22:26,460
days to to weeks sometimes in advance

532
00:22:33,470 --> 00:22:30,539
um they can feel shifts in in weather or

533
00:22:35,330 --> 00:22:33,480
other conditions in advance or they can

534
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:35,340
tell when things are are slightly awry

535
00:22:39,529 --> 00:22:37,200
and they're they're Attunement to the

536
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:39,539
the workings and patterns of nature

537
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:42,000
seems to be heightened in some way we've

538
00:22:45,169 --> 00:22:43,440
even tested some of these energy

539
00:22:46,810 --> 00:22:45,179
abilities at least in a rudimentary

540
00:22:49,370 --> 00:22:46,820
sense

541
00:22:51,529 --> 00:22:49,380
and shows that they can easily detect

542
00:22:54,289 --> 00:22:51,539
extreme magnetic fields and changes in

543
00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:54,299
those or another phenomenon that deals

544
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:56,880
with stress in materials called tensor

545
00:23:02,029 --> 00:23:00,480
fields that that can also be tested and

546
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:02,039
we there's more work needs to be done in

547
00:23:05,690 --> 00:23:03,360
this area really quantify it

548
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:05,700
scientifically but early indications are

549
00:23:11,330 --> 00:23:08,400
that that they become very sensitive to

550
00:23:14,330 --> 00:23:11,340
different kinds of energies and and are

551
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:14,340
are affected emotionally By changes that

552
00:23:20,210 --> 00:23:17,280
are going on to the Earth and they this

553
00:23:21,710 --> 00:23:20,220
may contribute to this growing concern

554
00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:21,720
that they have that the planet is about

555
00:23:25,310 --> 00:23:23,220
to tip on its side and everything's

556
00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:25,320
going to go crazy so it's kind of hard

557
00:23:29,870 --> 00:23:27,720
to tell if they're just really feeling

558
00:23:31,250 --> 00:23:29,880
more in tune with things or if these

559
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:31,260
predictions that we keep hearing are

560
00:23:43,070 --> 00:23:40,430
anyone else have a comment on the panel

561
00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:43,080
is that it

562
00:23:47,630 --> 00:23:45,840
any other questions from the audience

563
00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:47,640
this might be a short evening

564
00:23:57,230 --> 00:23:54,710
I'm interested in the uh

565
00:23:59,710 --> 00:23:57,240
the state of of mine or State of

566
00:24:02,890 --> 00:23:59,720
Consciousness or maybe should say

567
00:24:05,810 --> 00:24:02,900
altered state of consciousness

568
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:05,820
prior immediately prior to during and

569
00:24:10,549 --> 00:24:07,919
immediately after an abduction

570
00:24:13,370 --> 00:24:10,559
experience uh

571
00:24:16,250 --> 00:24:13,380
Linda may have touched on an aspect of

572
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:16,260
it with the dreams the and maybe I

573
00:24:19,970 --> 00:24:18,480
should be asking this to the uh

574
00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:19,980
abductees

575
00:24:25,850 --> 00:24:24,000
themselves and if if uh you have if you

576
00:24:29,330 --> 00:24:25,860
can answer the question

577
00:24:32,570 --> 00:24:29,340
I wish you would if the panelists can't

578
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:32,580
um the accounts that I have read when I

579
00:24:37,789 --> 00:24:33,840
read them

580
00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:37,799
I get the idea or the impression of a

581
00:24:44,870 --> 00:24:41,700
dream a dream state or at least my dream

582
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:45,950
um

583
00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:48,480
and and the particular

584
00:24:53,810 --> 00:24:51,000
curious thing is

585
00:24:56,210 --> 00:24:53,820
which is like my dream states I don't

586
00:24:58,430 --> 00:24:56,220
think the ridiculous things in my dreams

587
00:25:01,370 --> 00:24:58,440
are ridiculous until I wake up and

588
00:25:04,430 --> 00:25:01,380
become and think about them and with my

589
00:25:06,529 --> 00:25:04,440
conscious mind and and I and I get this

590
00:25:08,450 --> 00:25:06,539
from that this is possibly the case

591
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:08,460
seems to be the case in the abduction

592
00:25:13,490 --> 00:25:10,559
experience

593
00:25:16,909 --> 00:25:13,500
and I would just like for someone to to

594
00:25:20,330 --> 00:25:16,919
talk about that uh some either you all

595
00:25:24,230 --> 00:25:20,340
or the actual

596
00:25:25,610 --> 00:25:24,240
yeah I'd like to start it and then see

597
00:25:26,690 --> 00:25:25,620
who wants to jump in

598
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:26,700
um

599
00:25:31,490 --> 00:25:29,039
in the west we have a very limited

600
00:25:33,769 --> 00:25:31,500
number of words for different states of

601
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:33,779
Consciousness in the Eastern thinking

602
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:36,320
and religion there may be 50 80 100

603
00:25:41,450 --> 00:25:38,880
words for for the different possible

604
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:41,460
States we have uh conscious unconscious

605
00:25:46,130 --> 00:25:44,640
dream sleep I mean hypnagogic states

606
00:25:48,289 --> 00:25:46,140
which means the state when you're

607
00:25:49,730 --> 00:25:48,299
falling asleep and hitting the pumpic

608
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:49,740
when you're waking up in that sort of in

609
00:25:54,890 --> 00:25:52,080
between State and that's about it I

610
00:25:57,070 --> 00:25:54,900
guess you can have a stupor if you're

611
00:25:59,930 --> 00:25:57,080
you know

612
00:26:02,690 --> 00:25:59,940
we really are very limited in what we

613
00:26:04,610 --> 00:26:02,700
know now this phenomenon forces us to

614
00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:04,620
think about subtleties and you know we

615
00:26:12,649 --> 00:26:07,320
don't like to think about subtleties uh

616
00:26:14,990 --> 00:26:12,659
so 90 numbers uh high percentage of

617
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:15,000
people will remember until they've had a

618
00:26:19,970 --> 00:26:17,520
chance to explore their abductions as

619
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:19,980
dreams okay now when they call our dream

620
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:21,840
is it a dream that recollects an

621
00:26:25,370 --> 00:26:23,760
abduction is it an abduction they're

622
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:25,380
calling a dream there's all kinds of

623
00:26:28,610 --> 00:26:27,120
ways the word dream is you it was just

624
00:26:30,049 --> 00:26:28,620
an experience that happens at night you

625
00:26:32,690 --> 00:26:30,059
call it a dream because that's the way

626
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,700
you were raised to think what uh I

627
00:26:37,909 --> 00:26:34,320
mentioned this afternoon and I want to

628
00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:37,919
stress it uh if you take a an abduction

629
00:26:43,310 --> 00:26:40,559
experiencer through the night of an

630
00:26:45,470 --> 00:26:43,320
experience there is that moment of truth

631
00:26:48,049 --> 00:26:45,480
when they realize they weren't really

632
00:26:49,850 --> 00:26:48,059
asleep when this happened now there's a

633
00:26:50,930 --> 00:26:49,860
sort of like you went to bed and it's

634
00:26:52,490 --> 00:26:50,940
very important to go you know

635
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:52,500
reconstruct the events of the night like

636
00:26:55,909 --> 00:26:54,000
okay what time do you go to bed you're

637
00:26:58,370 --> 00:26:55,919
watching television and you went to bed

638
00:27:00,529 --> 00:26:58,380
and then what happened and then then

639
00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:00,539
this light came in now but you didn't

640
00:27:05,450 --> 00:27:02,640
say you fell asleep and that's a moment

641
00:27:07,850 --> 00:27:05,460
of truth and at that moment a shift in

642
00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:07,860
Consciousness occurs it's not as if

643
00:27:10,390 --> 00:27:09,179
they're just like an ordinary waking

644
00:27:12,890 --> 00:27:10,400
consciousness

645
00:27:14,750 --> 00:27:12,900
one of the people that bud and I have

646
00:27:18,049 --> 00:27:14,760
worked with in in New York describes

647
00:27:20,269 --> 00:27:18,059
it's as if the aliens come through a

648
00:27:22,070 --> 00:27:20,279
screen they break through it's like a

649
00:27:24,529 --> 00:27:22,080
scrim which is the the screen in the

650
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:24,539
theater in it's as if they shatter one

651
00:27:27,890 --> 00:27:26,640
reality and come into this reality a

652
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,900
person is not asleep but they're in

653
00:27:31,070 --> 00:27:29,520
another state of consciousness but

654
00:27:32,510 --> 00:27:31,080
they're fully present in that state of

655
00:27:34,190 --> 00:27:32,520
consciousness but it's a different state

656
00:27:35,810 --> 00:27:34,200
of consciousness so it's a true

657
00:27:38,330 --> 00:27:35,820
experience but in another state of

658
00:27:41,330 --> 00:27:38,340
consciousness and we don't have language

659
00:27:43,070 --> 00:27:41,340
for that so that's just a starter this

660
00:27:46,370 --> 00:27:43,080
is a very important and very interesting

661
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:47,870
um Clark I'd like to say something

662
00:27:52,549 --> 00:27:50,400
having had the experience and had also

663
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:52,559
having worked with and listened to many

664
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:54,480
many other people with the experience

665
00:27:59,450 --> 00:27:56,240
in one instance

666
00:28:01,789 --> 00:27:59,460
when I had a daytime encounter

667
00:28:03,890 --> 00:28:01,799
I was in an altered state before I know

668
00:28:07,070 --> 00:28:03,900
I knew I was having an encounter it was

669
00:28:09,529 --> 00:28:07,080
almost technologically precise I was

670
00:28:11,570 --> 00:28:09,539
walking from one from a neighbor's yard

671
00:28:13,370 --> 00:28:11,580
to my yard and when I stepped I was

672
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:13,380
perfectly fine on this side of the line

673
00:28:19,490 --> 00:28:16,320
I took a step over an invisible barrier

674
00:28:23,269 --> 00:28:19,500
which immediately put me into an altered

675
00:28:26,029 --> 00:28:23,279
state before I even saw the the ETS

676
00:28:28,490 --> 00:28:26,039
so I felt it was very much an imposed

677
00:28:30,830 --> 00:28:28,500
external technologically produced state

678
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:30,840
of mind so that when I looked up and saw

679
00:28:34,850 --> 00:28:33,120
the little beings there in the yard I

680
00:28:36,590 --> 00:28:34,860
didn't freak I did not act as I would

681
00:28:39,169 --> 00:28:36,600
have normally my normal State of

682
00:28:41,330 --> 00:28:39,179
Consciousness was very much dampened and

683
00:28:43,970 --> 00:28:41,340
it was there was surprise there wasn't

684
00:28:45,950 --> 00:28:43,980
shock and fainting the same thing seems

685
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:45,960
to happen with other people no matter

686
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:48,000
there's a change in how you normally

687
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:50,880
would react and I think it's imposed

688
00:28:56,210 --> 00:28:54,000
in some very external technological way

689
00:28:57,529 --> 00:28:56,220
for instance one abductee who was very

690
00:29:00,169 --> 00:28:57,539
upset about things that had happened

691
00:29:02,210 --> 00:29:00,179
with him and and had said the next time

692
00:29:04,430 --> 00:29:02,220
I get my little hands around their

693
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:04,440
little necks I'm going to smash him in

694
00:29:07,669 --> 00:29:06,000
the face I'm really mad about this

695
00:29:10,010 --> 00:29:07,679
they're not going to do me this way

696
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:10,020
anymore and he had to get house guest

697
00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:12,240
staying at his house and when the house

698
00:29:17,090 --> 00:29:14,159
guest was asleep in the living room on

699
00:29:18,830 --> 00:29:17,100
the sofa the the host woke up in the

700
00:29:20,570 --> 00:29:18,840
middle of the night for no apparent

701
00:29:23,210 --> 00:29:20,580
reason and looked down the hallway and

702
00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:23,220
saw the little blue light probe that had

703
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:24,840
been in his house several times before

704
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:27,120
during experiences or before they on the

705
00:29:31,370 --> 00:29:29,520
onset of one he saw this bobbing over

706
00:29:33,289 --> 00:29:31,380
the head of the person who was sleeping

707
00:29:35,870 --> 00:29:33,299
in his living room on the couch and he

708
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,880
had just said not three days before if I

709
00:29:41,210 --> 00:29:37,440
ever see him again I'm going to give him

710
00:29:43,909 --> 00:29:41,220
this he looked up and said oh I know

711
00:29:46,250 --> 00:29:43,919
what that is out to sleep

712
00:29:47,810 --> 00:29:46,260
the next morning was doubly Furious he

713
00:29:50,210 --> 00:29:47,820
had been thwarted in what he would have

714
00:29:51,950 --> 00:29:50,220
normally and naturally wished to do so

715
00:29:55,549 --> 00:29:51,960
it seems like there's an imposed State

716
00:29:57,289 --> 00:29:55,559
not perhaps dream state at all just

717
00:29:59,389 --> 00:29:57,299
something that dampens our normal

718
00:30:01,370 --> 00:29:59,399
response and that's how it feels really

719
00:30:02,870 --> 00:30:01,380
and it's in the daytime you know you're

720
00:30:04,669 --> 00:30:02,880
not sleeping when you're walking and

721
00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:04,679
talking and driving and cooking and so

722
00:30:09,230 --> 00:30:06,960
on so it's not like the dream state

723
00:30:12,350 --> 00:30:09,240
feels

724
00:30:18,769 --> 00:30:12,360
anyone else on the panel for that one

725
00:30:23,570 --> 00:30:21,529
I'd like to ask our steam panel of broad

726
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:23,580
experience here

727
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:25,679
a question perhaps you can't answer

728
00:30:29,570 --> 00:30:27,120
completely but give us some

729
00:30:32,090 --> 00:30:29,580
contributions from your experience to

730
00:30:34,730 --> 00:30:32,100
compare and contrast the information

731
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:34,740
we're putting together on abductions

732
00:30:38,510 --> 00:30:37,679
meaning forced by not giving you free

733
00:30:41,450 --> 00:30:38,520
will

734
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,460
however you want to call that versus the

735
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:43,200
contact voluntarily where there's no

736
00:30:47,090 --> 00:30:45,360
Force what are we learning from these

737
00:30:49,370 --> 00:30:47,100
two are we getting similar data

738
00:30:52,490 --> 00:30:49,380
conflicting data and how is it coming

739
00:30:55,789 --> 00:30:52,500
about can you contrast and show the

740
00:30:57,310 --> 00:30:55,799
conflictions and contrast on this

741
00:30:59,930 --> 00:30:57,320
uh

742
00:31:02,149 --> 00:30:59,940
to start to answer that question I think

743
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:02,159
it's important to know who comes to us

744
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:05,760
people who are coping people who

745
00:31:10,970 --> 00:31:08,159
um maybe remember things consciously or

746
00:31:13,549 --> 00:31:10,980
feel their contactes may never come to

747
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:13,559
us for any kind of help so it's kind of

748
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:16,320
skewed in terms of the population that

749
00:31:21,889 --> 00:31:18,960
we may see we see the people who are

750
00:31:24,889 --> 00:31:21,899
confused anxious Sleepless irritable you

751
00:31:25,490 --> 00:31:24,899
know all those more traumatic responses

752
00:31:27,649 --> 00:31:25,500
um

753
00:31:29,870 --> 00:31:27,659
and so they may see themselves more as

754
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:29,880
abducted and terrorized or something

755
00:31:33,049 --> 00:31:32,399
like that at least to start with

756
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:33,059
um

757
00:31:39,289 --> 00:31:36,000
so I I think that that was an important

758
00:31:41,870 --> 00:31:39,299
distinction in terms of comparison

759
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:41,880
um I would like to talk to a lot of

760
00:31:47,769 --> 00:31:44,640
people who perhaps call themselves as

761
00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:47,779
contactees and have maybe more positive

762
00:31:54,049 --> 00:31:51,360
experiences just for that comparison but

763
00:31:56,830 --> 00:31:54,059
I think so much of what I do see comes

764
00:32:00,590 --> 00:31:56,840
because it comes to the label of trauma

765
00:32:03,130 --> 00:32:00,600
at least initially I do want to add it

766
00:32:06,830 --> 00:32:03,140
through my research

767
00:32:08,750 --> 00:32:06,840
that I would say about 50 percent end up

768
00:32:12,110 --> 00:32:08,760
feeling positive about it about 50

769
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:12,120
percent don't even though at first they

770
00:32:16,090 --> 00:32:14,640
may have come for that indeed initial

771
00:32:19,370 --> 00:32:16,100
traumatic

772
00:32:22,310 --> 00:32:19,380
release that they need to work through

773
00:32:24,049 --> 00:32:22,320
well one of the things that I know in

774
00:32:27,470 --> 00:32:24,059
letters and audio cassettes people have

775
00:32:29,149 --> 00:32:27,480
sent me that probably the second emotion

776
00:32:32,330 --> 00:32:29,159
after fear is anger

777
00:32:34,190 --> 00:32:32,340
and that there is a pattern in the

778
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:34,200
people who feel that their will has been

779
00:32:38,029 --> 00:32:36,240
violated that they've been raped or

780
00:32:39,710 --> 00:32:38,039
there's a kind of a

781
00:32:42,649 --> 00:32:39,720
syndrome there

782
00:32:44,990 --> 00:32:42,659
I think it's also interesting that there

783
00:32:47,810 --> 00:32:45,000
are several men that have corresponded

784
00:32:49,070 --> 00:32:47,820
and I have interviewed and talked with

785
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:49,080
who

786
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:52,080
you you were talking about Will and

787
00:32:55,909 --> 00:32:54,000
versus violation or will or those who

788
00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:55,919
felt like that they had consciously

789
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:58,080
acquiesced to do something versus those

790
00:33:02,149 --> 00:33:00,720
who felt that they had no choice well

791
00:33:04,549 --> 00:33:02,159
there is a couple of interesting

792
00:33:06,169 --> 00:33:04,559
Twilight areas here that seems to

793
00:33:09,710 --> 00:33:06,179
involve both and

794
00:33:12,289 --> 00:33:09,720
in men one of these patterns that I've

795
00:33:13,850 --> 00:33:12,299
heard over and over again is where they

796
00:33:16,370 --> 00:33:13,860
feel in the beginning that they're

797
00:33:18,110 --> 00:33:16,380
having a sexual encounter with a pretty

798
00:33:22,009 --> 00:33:18,120
blonde woman or something

799
00:33:24,769 --> 00:33:22,019
and they are happy and willfully

800
00:33:28,970 --> 00:33:24,779
involved in this action

801
00:33:31,450 --> 00:33:28,980
and then uh you will hear them it's one

802
00:33:35,210 --> 00:33:31,460
or two versions I've heard

803
00:33:37,730 --> 00:33:35,220
they suddenly the blonde woman

804
00:33:40,009 --> 00:33:37,740
who they thought were they were in a

805
00:33:42,409 --> 00:33:40,019
sexual relationship with is suddenly

806
00:33:44,090 --> 00:33:42,419
replaced by either a gray that's

807
00:33:47,389 --> 00:33:44,100
floating above them because they feel no

808
00:33:49,310 --> 00:33:47,399
physical pressure and or they suddenly

809
00:33:51,409 --> 00:33:49,320
See Clearly whether the phenomenon

810
00:33:53,690 --> 00:33:51,419
releases this or there's something that

811
00:33:56,330 --> 00:33:53,700
the human Mind and Spirit forces through

812
00:33:57,529 --> 00:33:56,340
this wall they see the tubes and the

813
00:33:59,570 --> 00:33:57,539
machines that are hooked up to their

814
00:34:01,909 --> 00:33:59,580
genitals at that moment they feel

815
00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:01,919
complete and total humiliation and rage

816
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:04,260
now I've seen that pattern

817
00:34:09,970 --> 00:34:07,919
and one man uh just three nights ago who

818
00:34:13,550 --> 00:34:09,980
has had this happen to him several times

819
00:34:17,050 --> 00:34:13,560
uh he called because he's been going

820
00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:17,060
through a of ebb and flow of vacillation

821
00:34:23,810 --> 00:34:21,119
between I am I am finally getting ready

822
00:34:26,810 --> 00:34:23,820
to deal with them on a conscious level I

823
00:34:29,030 --> 00:34:26,820
am going to break through this strange

824
00:34:32,030 --> 00:34:29,040
State and he called the other night to

825
00:34:33,649 --> 00:34:32,040
tell me that he was waked up and he knew

826
00:34:36,050 --> 00:34:33,659
he was totally conscious and that there

827
00:34:38,570 --> 00:34:36,060
was a golf ball-sized glowing white

828
00:34:40,490 --> 00:34:38,580
light in the bedroom which he saw move

829
00:34:41,629 --> 00:34:40,500
what he estimated to be about five feet

830
00:34:43,970 --> 00:34:41,639
through the air

831
00:34:46,250 --> 00:34:43,980
but he said that he was struck with a

832
00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:46,260
terror that was as deep and abiding as

833
00:34:49,970 --> 00:34:48,960
anything he'd ever experienced before

834
00:34:53,149 --> 00:34:49,980
well

835
00:34:57,470 --> 00:34:53,159
just a week or so before he had said I

836
00:34:59,450 --> 00:34:57,480
am ready for conscious encounter

837
00:35:03,290 --> 00:34:59,460
now there's something about these golf

838
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:03,300
ball size baseball size softball size

839
00:35:08,829 --> 00:35:06,960
lights for I'm sure all of us here and

840
00:35:10,849 --> 00:35:08,839
and those of you out there it is

841
00:35:13,490 --> 00:35:10,859
prevalent throughout the abduction

842
00:35:15,710 --> 00:35:13,500
literature and the experiences and I've

843
00:35:18,650 --> 00:35:15,720
wondered are they some kind of an

844
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:18,660
advanced TV telephone Communication

845
00:35:25,069 --> 00:35:21,599
System it's come in place to make some

846
00:35:27,829 --> 00:35:25,079
kind of communication and yet I know

847
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:27,839
more abductees are so terrified of these

848
00:35:32,690 --> 00:35:30,240
glowing light balls and the few that

849
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:32,700
have relaxed into a place eventually

850
00:35:37,310 --> 00:35:35,040
after they've come and gone they get

851
00:35:39,230 --> 00:35:37,320
some kind of communication from them so

852
00:35:42,130 --> 00:35:39,240
what I'm trying to say is is that when

853
00:35:46,130 --> 00:35:42,140
it comes to this issue of

854
00:35:48,109 --> 00:35:46,140
saying I they want an experience

855
00:35:50,530 --> 00:35:48,119
the phenomenon seems to come back with

856
00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:50,540
something that would seem to be now

857
00:35:55,790 --> 00:35:54,000
upfront Center and conscious but we all

858
00:35:57,890 --> 00:35:55,800
still seem to have a great deal of

859
00:35:59,810 --> 00:35:57,900
difficulty even dealing with a ball of

860
00:36:01,910 --> 00:35:59,820
light

861
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:01,920
I would like to say about the contact

862
00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:05,520
and abduction division

863
00:36:09,589 --> 00:36:07,440
that for the

864
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:09,599
working purpose I think you need to

865
00:36:13,270 --> 00:36:11,280
Define what those things are and that

866
00:36:15,710 --> 00:36:13,280
abduction is where someone is taken

867
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:15,720
forcibly or against their will and a

868
00:36:19,970 --> 00:36:18,000
contact is where you have an exchange of

869
00:36:22,370 --> 00:36:19,980
information where nobody is forced to do

870
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:22,380
anything it's easy to say that two

871
00:36:26,450 --> 00:36:24,960
things are not alike and the same things

872
00:36:29,329 --> 00:36:26,460
can happen within one person's

873
00:36:31,790 --> 00:36:29,339
experience now there are those who do

874
00:36:33,530 --> 00:36:31,800
think they have gone willingly once the

875
00:36:35,990 --> 00:36:33,540
intrusion is started but if you remember

876
00:36:38,030 --> 00:36:36,000
how artificially and technologically

877
00:36:40,250 --> 00:36:38,040
easy it is for these people to change

878
00:36:42,650 --> 00:36:40,260
our moods and change our minds and

879
00:36:45,370 --> 00:36:42,660
change our our even our sensory input

880
00:36:47,450 --> 00:36:45,380
from Pain to pleasure from Fear To Love

881
00:36:49,370 --> 00:36:47,460
instantaneously then we don't really

882
00:36:50,750 --> 00:36:49,380
know when we go by ourselves if we're

883
00:36:52,250 --> 00:36:50,760
going willingly or if we're going

884
00:36:55,550 --> 00:36:52,260
because we've been made to feel we're

885
00:36:57,230 --> 00:36:55,560
going willingly so I TR I tend to say if

886
00:36:58,970 --> 00:36:57,240
they don't take you anywhere under any

887
00:37:01,130 --> 00:36:58,980
conditions you've had a contact if

888
00:37:03,410 --> 00:37:01,140
they've taken you anywhere you've had an

889
00:37:05,930 --> 00:37:03,420
abduction

890
00:37:09,170 --> 00:37:05,940
because a contact is simply a talk an

891
00:37:14,410 --> 00:37:11,150
is that it

892
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:16,730
concerning government involvement or

893
00:37:20,870 --> 00:37:18,960
military involvement in abductions does

894
00:37:22,609 --> 00:37:20,880
this not take place when the person is

895
00:37:26,810 --> 00:37:22,619
sort of coming out of the closet and

896
00:37:28,849 --> 00:37:26,820
starting to talk about it or get therapy

897
00:37:30,410 --> 00:37:28,859
or something or what what what's uh when

898
00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:30,420
does this happen

899
00:37:35,210 --> 00:37:32,400
some people doesn't think it happens at

900
00:37:36,109 --> 00:37:35,220
all or don't think it happens at all

901
00:37:38,750 --> 00:37:36,119
um

902
00:37:40,849 --> 00:37:38,760
in one case it happened before the

903
00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:40,859
person even knew there was anything and

904
00:37:45,530 --> 00:37:42,960
certainly hadn't come out of the closet

905
00:37:47,930 --> 00:37:45,540
in another case it had happened before

906
00:37:49,609 --> 00:37:47,940
anyone except the immediate family knew

907
00:37:51,470 --> 00:37:49,619
so there was no coming out of the closet

908
00:37:53,450 --> 00:37:51,480
I don't think it has anything to do with

909
00:37:55,490 --> 00:37:53,460
trying to keep you from talking because

910
00:37:56,810 --> 00:37:55,500
for a lot of us it really pushes you to

911
00:37:59,230 --> 00:37:56,820
talk

912
00:38:02,270 --> 00:37:59,240
I would tend to agree with that too

913
00:38:05,329 --> 00:38:02,280
obviously Leah who you heard today was

914
00:38:07,970 --> 00:38:05,339
the actually I think the only case that

915
00:38:09,470 --> 00:38:07,980
I've had that that you know there was

916
00:38:11,569 --> 00:38:09,480
that kind of involvement there have been

917
00:38:14,510 --> 00:38:11,579
some indications in other cases very

918
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:14,520
interesting where the person who didn't

919
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:16,800
know much about the phenomena would say

920
00:38:20,690 --> 00:38:18,960
you know I think something happened last

921
00:38:23,270 --> 00:38:20,700
night and the other thing that's strange

922
00:38:24,710 --> 00:38:23,280
is that uh these black helicopters are

923
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:24,720
roaring through the valley this morning

924
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:26,400
they we've never seen those before I

925
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:29,040
wonder why they're circling our house

926
00:38:32,810 --> 00:38:31,200
you know and they hadn't even explored

927
00:38:35,930 --> 00:38:32,820
an experience but you know it gave me

928
00:38:38,510 --> 00:38:35,940
the feeling sometimes it uh there was

929
00:38:40,069 --> 00:38:38,520
some kind of surveillance certainly when

930
00:38:42,829 --> 00:38:40,079
we know that satellites can read

931
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:42,839
newspapers from space that some of these

932
00:38:46,970 --> 00:38:44,640
objects just might be tracked somehow

933
00:38:48,829 --> 00:38:46,980
and they might know where they're going

934
00:38:50,810 --> 00:38:48,839
in Maryland there have been several of

935
00:38:53,870 --> 00:38:50,820
us involved with the investigation of a

936
00:38:56,690 --> 00:38:53,880
case of a woman who last June was wake

937
00:38:58,849 --> 00:38:56,700
up with a pulsing blue light coming

938
00:39:01,329 --> 00:38:58,859
through the shades in the bedroom it's a

939
00:39:05,390 --> 00:39:01,339
very small house I've been in this house

940
00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:05,400
and uh for some reason that's still not

941
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:08,880
clear she never opened up the shades she

942
00:39:12,410 --> 00:39:10,800
did go to the doorway to see in the

943
00:39:15,170 --> 00:39:12,420
living room and she could also see the

944
00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:15,180
light pulsing there she never made any

945
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:17,160
aggressive action to go out of the house

946
00:39:22,910 --> 00:39:19,920
or anything but the next morning there

947
00:39:25,010 --> 00:39:22,920
was a 14 foot diameter circle in the

948
00:39:26,990 --> 00:39:25,020
front yard which we did get soil samples

949
00:39:28,609 --> 00:39:27,000
from we were able to find that there

950
00:39:30,470 --> 00:39:28,619
were some very strange biochemical

951
00:39:31,550 --> 00:39:30,480
changes actually in the seed in the

952
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:31,560
grass

953
00:39:37,370 --> 00:39:35,760
and she began to have helicopters

954
00:39:40,750 --> 00:39:37,380
of

955
00:39:44,030 --> 00:39:40,760
we think military nature

956
00:39:47,050 --> 00:39:44,040
over the house on such a regular basis

957
00:39:50,569 --> 00:39:47,060
that a mufon investigator went with a

958
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:50,579
camcorder videotaped this there were

959
00:39:54,410 --> 00:39:52,800
other researchers who would be on the

960
00:39:56,030 --> 00:39:54,420
telephone with her and all of a sudden

961
00:39:57,950 --> 00:39:56,040
the fun they couldn't even talk on the

962
00:40:00,530 --> 00:39:57,960
phone because of the sound in the house

963
00:40:02,410 --> 00:40:00,540
was so loud

964
00:40:05,390 --> 00:40:02,420
one day

965
00:40:07,370 --> 00:40:05,400
uh feeling like she was going out of her

966
00:40:10,730 --> 00:40:07,380
skin she said I'm going to forget all

967
00:40:12,829 --> 00:40:10,740
this I'm going to lie down on a chair in

968
00:40:14,810 --> 00:40:12,839
the backyard in the sun I'm going to

969
00:40:17,630 --> 00:40:14,820
make this all go away

970
00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:17,640
and she was lying feeling relaxed for

971
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:19,680
the first time in a while in the Sun and

972
00:40:23,089 --> 00:40:21,119
she said it was like somebody leaned

973
00:40:25,490 --> 00:40:23,099
over her and the shadow came across her

974
00:40:27,710 --> 00:40:25,500
face and her head she opened up her eyes

975
00:40:29,150 --> 00:40:27,720
expecting to see her husband leaning

976
00:40:32,030 --> 00:40:29,160
over her

977
00:40:34,490 --> 00:40:32,040
and she said approximately 10 feet above

978
00:40:37,130 --> 00:40:34,500
her was a helicopter

979
00:40:39,710 --> 00:40:37,140
and the helicopter she said was

980
00:40:42,410 --> 00:40:39,720
all beige

981
00:40:44,990 --> 00:40:42,420
and she said she couldn't see through

982
00:40:46,910 --> 00:40:45,000
the windows and she was going on in

983
00:40:50,510 --> 00:40:46,920
these minute details about this

984
00:40:53,150 --> 00:40:50,520
helicopter and I said well the sound

985
00:40:55,609 --> 00:40:53,160
must have been horrific

986
00:40:57,349 --> 00:40:55,619
and she said well there wasn't any sound

987
00:40:59,329 --> 00:40:57,359
and I said well there must have been

988
00:41:02,150 --> 00:40:59,339
things must have been blowing this is 10

989
00:41:03,770 --> 00:41:02,160
feet above you she said no it was very

990
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:03,780
still

991
00:41:07,790 --> 00:41:05,040
well

992
00:41:09,950 --> 00:41:07,800
that is not a helicopter as I understand

993
00:41:13,550 --> 00:41:09,960
helicopters in terrestrial terms

994
00:41:16,970 --> 00:41:13,560
interacting with air molecules so

995
00:41:22,609 --> 00:41:16,980
again we've got this camouflage I don't

996
00:41:25,550 --> 00:41:22,619
know what it is I'm where this thing was

997
00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:25,560
she thought a military helicopter well

998
00:41:29,630 --> 00:41:27,359
interestingly enough one of the

999
00:41:32,510 --> 00:41:29,640
investigators in Maryland began doing

1000
00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:32,520
some research through a congressman

1001
00:41:38,390 --> 00:41:34,560
and they were able to push this case

1002
00:41:41,930 --> 00:41:38,400
actually to some agencies and they got

1003
00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:41,940
back a response that there was a

1004
00:41:46,730 --> 00:41:45,119
classified National Security reason for

1005
00:41:48,050 --> 00:41:46,740
why helicopters were in that

1006
00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:48,060
neighborhood and they would not Define

1007
00:41:54,589 --> 00:41:51,240
it and that's as of a couple of months

1008
00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:54,599
ago but we don't know what more she she

1009
00:41:59,810 --> 00:41:56,640
still has helicopters over the house but

1010
00:42:02,329 --> 00:41:59,820
I think there's an example of

1011
00:42:04,370 --> 00:42:02,339
hearing and seeing real helicopters and

1012
00:42:10,069 --> 00:42:04,380
then what was this thing 10 feet above

1013
00:42:13,730 --> 00:42:11,870
anyone else

1014
00:42:15,170 --> 00:42:13,740
yeah I'll just make a brief comment

1015
00:42:18,170 --> 00:42:15,180
about this uh

1016
00:42:20,930 --> 00:42:18,180
it's a hard question to answer because

1017
00:42:22,970 --> 00:42:20,940
it seems to be very complex you'll have

1018
00:42:24,770 --> 00:42:22,980
one witness over here who's having

1019
00:42:26,810 --> 00:42:24,780
experiences with Grace never saw a

1020
00:42:28,910 --> 00:42:26,820
government person or helicopter their

1021
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:28,920
entire life of experiences another

1022
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:30,720
person that seems to be involved with a

1023
00:42:35,390 --> 00:42:33,119
group exactly like this other woman is

1024
00:42:37,370 --> 00:42:35,400
harassed continuously by helicopters

1025
00:42:40,010 --> 00:42:37,380
government people sometimes they're even

1026
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:40,020
abducted maybe by the government and and

1027
00:42:44,810 --> 00:42:42,000
interrogated or examined to see what the

1028
00:42:47,030 --> 00:42:44,820
aliens were up to maybe who knows uh and

1029
00:42:48,530 --> 00:42:47,040
then you have other cases like what Bill

1030
00:42:50,510 --> 00:42:48,540
talked about where the government and

1031
00:42:52,670 --> 00:42:50,520
the aliens seem to be working together

1032
00:42:54,650 --> 00:42:52,680
what the hell does this all mean you

1033
00:42:55,790 --> 00:42:54,660
know I mean uh are there we have three

1034
00:42:57,050 --> 00:42:55,800
different groups with three different

1035
00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:57,060
motives and they just happen to look

1036
00:43:01,730 --> 00:43:00,480
alike you know maybe uh and when does

1037
00:43:03,050 --> 00:43:01,740
the government get involved are they

1038
00:43:06,530 --> 00:43:03,060
understaffed maybe they just can't

1039
00:43:09,470 --> 00:43:06,540
handle all the abductees uh you know I I

1040
00:43:11,089 --> 00:43:09,480
don't know but it seems like uh though

1041
00:43:13,550 --> 00:43:11,099
all those kind of scenarios may be going

1042
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:18,230
okay next question

1043
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:20,210
even pointed out that it takes a lot of

1044
00:43:23,870 --> 00:43:21,839
commitment and sensitivity for a

1045
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:23,880
therapist to work with these people how

1046
00:43:31,550 --> 00:43:25,920
are you going to determine who's got the

1047
00:43:36,829 --> 00:43:34,430
um I won't determine that the abductee

1048
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:36,839
will determine that

1049
00:43:40,329 --> 00:43:37,440
um

1050
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:40,339
they will know who feels right to them

1051
00:43:44,510 --> 00:43:42,720
the person may have all the credentials

1052
00:43:47,770 --> 00:43:44,520
in the world and they can be a total

1053
00:43:49,849 --> 00:43:47,780
jerk and I know quite a few

1054
00:43:50,569 --> 00:43:49,859
no names

1055
00:43:53,329 --> 00:43:50,579
um

1056
00:43:54,829 --> 00:43:53,339
and then there's some who have very

1057
00:43:56,270 --> 00:43:54,839
little training but their hearts in the

1058
00:43:59,569 --> 00:43:56,280
right place they have intelligence

1059
00:44:02,690 --> 00:43:59,579
maturity they have enough skills to do

1060
00:44:07,250 --> 00:44:02,700
the right thing and I applaud them

1061
00:44:09,290 --> 00:44:07,260
so uh I I get so many calls asking for

1062
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:09,300
who to refer and you try to find who

1063
00:44:13,010 --> 00:44:11,280
might be out there and then I don't know

1064
00:44:14,690 --> 00:44:13,020
who that person is and I tell them it

1065
00:44:17,390 --> 00:44:14,700
says look this person says they're

1066
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,400
interested you check them out you let me

1067
00:44:21,410 --> 00:44:19,680
know if it's a bad experience it says I

1068
00:44:25,450 --> 00:44:21,420
can't guarantee he says you have to

1069
00:44:32,990 --> 00:44:28,190
no it's not

1070
00:44:35,930 --> 00:44:33,000
all right I I think that the um

1071
00:44:37,250 --> 00:44:35,940
work uh requires some kind of a new

1072
00:44:39,530 --> 00:44:37,260
field

1073
00:44:41,569 --> 00:44:39,540
um that there might be mental health

1074
00:44:43,309 --> 00:44:41,579
professionals that would be qualified to

1075
00:44:45,710 --> 00:44:43,319
be in it but I would not like to see it

1076
00:44:47,329 --> 00:44:45,720
restricted to mental health professors

1077
00:44:54,010 --> 00:44:47,339
first of all we've got more to unlearn

1078
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:54,020
than uh than the people that are uh

1079
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:56,880
are natural to this field now it would

1080
00:45:00,290 --> 00:44:58,319
be what I think the question should be

1081
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:00,300
asked is who what what is what are the

1082
00:45:05,390 --> 00:45:02,880
natural gifts that people need to enter

1083
00:45:08,270 --> 00:45:05,400
this field I I'm working with an

1084
00:45:10,670 --> 00:45:08,280
assistant in Boston uh Pam Casey who has

1085
00:45:12,530 --> 00:45:10,680
had no mental health training at all

1086
00:45:15,170 --> 00:45:12,540
she's not an abductee and yet she's an

1087
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:15,180
absolute natural in working with people

1088
00:45:20,750 --> 00:45:18,960
knows what to say when is open uh can

1089
00:45:22,430 --> 00:45:20,760
hold affect I think one of the qualities

1090
00:45:24,770 --> 00:45:22,440
is the capacity

1091
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:24,780
to be there with a person who's

1092
00:45:29,690 --> 00:45:27,119
undergoing extraordinarily powerful

1093
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:29,700
affect about a matter which is not

1094
00:45:33,770 --> 00:45:31,440
explainable

1095
00:45:35,690 --> 00:45:33,780
now mental health professionals are very

1096
00:45:38,030 --> 00:45:35,700
it's very important I think a lot of

1097
00:45:39,890 --> 00:45:38,040
people go into my field because they

1098
00:45:41,390 --> 00:45:39,900
want to be able to explain the things

1099
00:45:44,450 --> 00:45:41,400
that have troubled them in their lives

1100
00:45:46,250 --> 00:45:44,460
and this is to to be with mystery that

1101
00:45:47,390 --> 00:45:46,260
is so powerful and the challenges our

1102
00:45:50,210 --> 00:45:47,400
reality

1103
00:45:52,609 --> 00:45:50,220
at the same time the sensitivity that

1104
00:45:55,069 --> 00:45:52,619
John and you are talking about it I

1105
00:45:57,050 --> 00:45:55,079
think it requires a that we perhaps

1106
00:45:58,430 --> 00:45:57,060
invent a new field which will have

1107
00:46:00,170 --> 00:45:58,440
mental health professionals but we'll

1108
00:46:01,970 --> 00:46:00,180
have some other folks too and then to

1109
00:46:07,370 --> 00:46:01,980
develop training programs that are

1110
00:46:11,870 --> 00:46:09,710
does this one not work well just one

1111
00:46:16,010 --> 00:46:11,880
thing is that one of the things I have

1112
00:46:17,450 --> 00:46:16,020
found is that people need somebody to

1113
00:46:20,210 --> 00:46:17,460
listen to them

1114
00:46:22,010 --> 00:46:20,220
without feeling any judgment

1115
00:46:23,329 --> 00:46:22,020
and that

1116
00:46:26,750 --> 00:46:23,339
I have

1117
00:46:29,329 --> 00:46:26,760
just held more men and women

1118
00:46:31,370 --> 00:46:29,339
who just began to sob and there's

1119
00:46:32,210 --> 00:46:31,380
nothing more I can do than just hold

1120
00:46:35,870 --> 00:46:32,220
them

1121
00:46:38,750 --> 00:46:35,880
and yet that in itself seems to be a

1122
00:46:42,589 --> 00:46:38,760
kind of catharsis and I've experienced

1123
00:46:45,770 --> 00:46:42,599
that many times and they're there's

1124
00:46:48,770 --> 00:46:45,780
probably a word here that compassion is

1125
00:46:50,569 --> 00:46:48,780
the area and we are dealing with

1126
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:50,579
something that is so unknown and

1127
00:46:55,910 --> 00:46:53,040
unpredictable but that is one thing

1128
00:46:58,250 --> 00:46:55,920
every one of us can give each other is

1129
00:47:00,650 --> 00:46:58,260
more compassion and less criticism and

1130
00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:00,660
judgment and if you have somebody who is

1131
00:47:04,490 --> 00:47:02,160
trying to tell you

1132
00:47:07,970 --> 00:47:04,500
an experience that just sounds like it

1133
00:47:09,710 --> 00:47:07,980
is completely over the top to you at

1134
00:47:13,790 --> 00:47:09,720
your subtitle level

1135
00:47:15,829 --> 00:47:13,800
just listen just listen and listen to

1136
00:47:18,650 --> 00:47:15,839
them let them talk it all the way out

1137
00:47:21,410 --> 00:47:18,660
some nights when I feel like I am so

1138
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:21,420
exhausted and I want to lie down

1139
00:47:26,030 --> 00:47:23,760
and you get the phone call and you know

1140
00:47:29,390 --> 00:47:26,040
it's going to be an hour at least

1141
00:47:31,910 --> 00:47:29,400
but somehow everybody keeps going

1142
00:47:33,410 --> 00:47:31,920
through this kind of together and I

1143
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:33,420
think that's really another important

1144
00:47:38,089 --> 00:47:35,040
part of this in addition to what the

1145
00:47:39,170 --> 00:47:38,099
professionals uh have to be able to

1146
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:39,180
provide to

1147
00:47:44,510 --> 00:47:41,280
yeah you can't teach people compassion

1148
00:47:46,430 --> 00:47:44,520
there's no certification for that that's

1149
00:47:47,930 --> 00:47:46,440
something the person working with with

1150
00:47:49,730 --> 00:47:47,940
the researcher will know or the

1151
00:47:51,530 --> 00:47:49,740
investigator will know there's also a

1152
00:47:53,150 --> 00:47:51,540
great deal of intuition involved in this

1153
00:47:55,069 --> 00:47:53,160
and again you can't learn it I think

1154
00:47:57,050 --> 00:47:55,079
there are some born people to work with

1155
00:47:58,430 --> 00:47:57,060
this and there are some people that all

1156
00:48:00,410 --> 00:47:58,440
the training in the world would not make

1157
00:48:04,250 --> 00:48:00,420
competent to do so

1158
00:48:04,260 --> 00:48:08,270
next

1159
00:48:12,349 --> 00:48:10,670
um after you get past the if this is

1160
00:48:13,730 --> 00:48:12,359
happening questions or how this is

1161
00:48:15,710 --> 00:48:13,740
happening questions it just kind of

1162
00:48:17,210 --> 00:48:15,720
leaves one question left why is it

1163
00:48:18,050 --> 00:48:17,220
happening

1164
00:48:19,370 --> 00:48:18,060
um

1165
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:19,380
out of all your research and everything

1166
00:48:26,329 --> 00:48:21,599
what's what's your best guess why is

1167
00:48:26,339 --> 00:48:30,770
I want an answer from everyone

1168
00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:33,170
next

1169
00:48:38,630 --> 00:48:37,200
oh that's the big one uh jeez we we

1170
00:48:40,550 --> 00:48:38,640
would probably all give you a different

1171
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:40,560
answer on that I mean there's so many

1172
00:48:45,050 --> 00:48:42,960
possibilities and you've probably heard

1173
00:48:47,930 --> 00:48:45,060
the different theories I really don't

1174
00:48:49,609 --> 00:48:47,940
like to speculate speculate I mean when

1175
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:49,619
people ask that question I will list

1176
00:48:53,809 --> 00:48:51,359
maybe five different theories like you

1177
00:48:56,450 --> 00:48:53,819
know it's to save us is to save them

1178
00:48:58,190 --> 00:48:56,460
it's to save the planet it's uh none of

1179
00:48:59,930 --> 00:48:58,200
that it's scientific research it's like

1180
00:49:02,510 --> 00:48:59,940
what we do with Wildlife on and on and

1181
00:49:04,910 --> 00:49:02,520
on and there's no one thing that sticks

1182
00:49:07,730 --> 00:49:04,920
out in my mind uh in fact more recently

1183
00:49:09,650 --> 00:49:07,740
it seems like maybe it's more spiritual

1184
00:49:12,290 --> 00:49:09,660
related maybe it's some evolution of

1185
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:12,300
Consciousness and and

1186
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:15,119
um like in 2001 the monolith appears and

1187
00:49:19,130 --> 00:49:16,800
then all of a sudden everybody's doing

1188
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:19,140
new and neat different things it's like

1189
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:21,680
maybe it's something like that

1190
00:49:29,089 --> 00:49:26,400
I don't know and it gets tricky getting

1191
00:49:36,609 --> 00:49:29,099
into all the speculation

1192
00:49:43,250 --> 00:49:39,050
none of us want to deal with this

1193
00:49:47,630 --> 00:49:45,829
sometimes I feel like I'm in one of

1194
00:49:49,970 --> 00:49:47,640
those rooms you know the dances or they

1195
00:49:51,170 --> 00:49:49,980
have the all the mirror the faceted

1196
00:49:54,410 --> 00:49:51,180
mirrors

1197
00:49:57,050 --> 00:49:54,420
and the lights go around and depending

1198
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:57,060
upon which wall you look at and it moves

1199
00:50:01,370 --> 00:49:59,040
and it moves and it moves that's the way

1200
00:50:02,450 --> 00:50:01,380
this whole phenomenon feels and that

1201
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:02,460
means

1202
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:06,000
the multiple facets that go beyond the

1203
00:50:12,349 --> 00:50:07,920
human abduction involves the mutilations

1204
00:50:14,390 --> 00:50:12,359
the crop circles the whole area of what

1205
00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:14,400
used to be called parapsychology ESP

1206
00:50:18,650 --> 00:50:17,460
mental telepathies all of it seems in

1207
00:50:20,510 --> 00:50:18,660
some way or another to have some

1208
00:50:22,190 --> 00:50:20,520
relationship here

1209
00:50:24,849 --> 00:50:22,200
but

1210
00:50:27,650 --> 00:50:24,859
if I had I guess

1211
00:50:29,390 --> 00:50:27,660
one honest

1212
00:50:31,370 --> 00:50:29,400
gut reaction

1213
00:50:33,650 --> 00:50:31,380
to all of this

1214
00:50:36,650 --> 00:50:33,660
I really do believe that there is

1215
00:50:39,650 --> 00:50:36,660
something in Conflict about us and I

1216
00:50:41,870 --> 00:50:39,660
think that there are forces that are

1217
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:41,880
ebbing and flowing of which and around

1218
00:50:46,430 --> 00:50:44,160
us a lot of the time we seem to be

1219
00:50:49,690 --> 00:50:46,440
unconscious of the ebbing and the

1220
00:50:52,730 --> 00:50:49,700
flowing of these forces upon us

1221
00:50:53,870 --> 00:50:52,740
uh Jacques valet calls it a control

1222
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:53,880
system

1223
00:50:58,670 --> 00:50:56,160
I've tended to use simply the word

1224
00:51:02,569 --> 00:50:58,680
another intelligence

1225
00:51:05,569 --> 00:51:02,579
I don't think it's just one

1226
00:51:08,450 --> 00:51:05,579
I really do feel that

1227
00:51:11,030 --> 00:51:08,460
at least two somethings

1228
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:11,040
are in conflict

1229
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:13,680
and whether or not all of the old

1230
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:16,640
literature and biblical perspectives of

1231
00:51:22,250 --> 00:51:19,440
the light and the dark whatever words

1232
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:22,260
you want to put on it are involved

1233
00:51:27,829 --> 00:51:25,680
something along those lines I think is

1234
00:51:30,950 --> 00:51:27,839
inherent to the nature of what we are

1235
00:51:31,970 --> 00:51:30,960
dealing with and that it is forcing

1236
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:31,980
um

1237
00:51:38,030 --> 00:51:35,760
it is forcing us to deal with things we

1238
00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:38,040
don't want to deal with because of the

1239
00:51:51,470 --> 00:51:39,900
complexities of the ebb and flow of the

1240
00:51:54,770 --> 00:51:52,790
as different as some of these

1241
00:51:56,990 --> 00:51:54,780
experiences are when that I talked about

1242
00:51:58,910 --> 00:51:57,000
earlier other various groups having

1243
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:58,920
various agendas I think that it's

1244
00:52:02,930 --> 00:52:01,200
undoubtedly true that there is at least

1245
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:02,940
one group that harvests from us

1246
00:52:07,790 --> 00:52:06,000
something maybe more than one thing they

1247
00:52:10,130 --> 00:52:07,800
we have something they want and they

1248
00:52:12,829 --> 00:52:10,140
come and get it there is another

1249
00:52:15,470 --> 00:52:12,839
seems to be another group that tries to

1250
00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:15,480
elevate in part educate teach and teach

1251
00:52:20,089 --> 00:52:18,240
us in some way how to maybe resist this

1252
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:20,099
other thing and I think that's the sense

1253
00:52:24,410 --> 00:52:22,079
of conflict that comes across again and

1254
00:52:25,970 --> 00:52:24,420
again and again we have something one

1255
00:52:28,250 --> 00:52:25,980
group wants and they don't care how they

1256
00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:28,260
get it they get it another

1257
00:52:32,809 --> 00:52:30,240
Force I won't even say group because

1258
00:52:35,870 --> 00:52:32,819
sometimes they are only information and

1259
00:52:39,049 --> 00:52:35,880
not did not actually there seems to be

1260
00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:39,059
trying to help us find a way to be

1261
00:52:45,290 --> 00:52:42,720
strong enough or evolved enough or in

1262
00:52:47,569 --> 00:52:45,300
some way resistant enough to take charge

1263
00:52:51,290 --> 00:52:47,579
of and take control of these things that

1264
00:52:53,569 --> 00:52:51,300
are taking from us and I sometimes I

1265
00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:53,579
think maybe we're the good ETS the ones

1266
00:52:57,530 --> 00:52:55,200
who are trying to do this maybe we did

1267
00:52:59,150 --> 00:52:57,540
come down here and and incarnate to do

1268
00:53:01,010 --> 00:52:59,160
this sort of battle it comes across from

1269
00:53:03,170 --> 00:53:01,020
many abductees that's exactly how they

1270
00:53:05,630 --> 00:53:03,180
feel and you begin to see that's not

1271
00:53:08,329 --> 00:53:05,640
altogether a crazy possibility

1272
00:53:10,010 --> 00:53:08,339
and yet there is a group that does very

1273
00:53:11,750 --> 00:53:10,020
much disregard anything about us

1274
00:53:14,809 --> 00:53:11,760
spiritually there's something at the

1275
00:53:16,190 --> 00:53:14,819
heart of this involving our souls maybe

1276
00:53:17,930 --> 00:53:16,200
they don't have them

1277
00:53:21,290 --> 00:53:17,940
[Music]

1278
00:53:22,430 --> 00:53:21,300
before before we continue with the

1279
00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:22,440
questions

1280
00:53:27,470 --> 00:53:24,240
we are going to end this at 11

1281
00:53:29,390 --> 00:53:27,480
officially and any of you that do want

1282
00:53:31,370 --> 00:53:29,400
to stick around and ask more questions

1283
00:53:34,130 --> 00:53:31,380
that the researchers can do so but

1284
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:34,140
anyone you're free to leave at 11 and

1285
00:53:37,309 --> 00:53:35,760
that includes anyone in the panel some

1286
00:53:39,770 --> 00:53:37,319
would like to get some sleep tonight I

1287
00:53:42,829 --> 00:53:39,780
think so now I think several people

1288
00:53:47,450 --> 00:53:42,839
wanted to reply to the question that was

1289
00:53:53,569 --> 00:53:49,670
I um

1290
00:53:56,930 --> 00:53:53,579
a teenage girl said to her grandmother

1291
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:56,940
who said something that was disturbing

1292
00:54:01,549 --> 00:53:59,040
to her in a publicly embarrassing way

1293
00:54:03,950 --> 00:54:01,559
Grandma you missed an extraordinary

1294
00:54:07,549 --> 00:54:03,960
opportunity to keep your mouth shut and

1295
00:54:10,430 --> 00:54:07,559
that uh and I I I'm not taking that

1296
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:10,440
advice unfortunately well just one quick

1297
00:54:15,049 --> 00:54:12,720
thought about that ultimate question we

1298
00:54:17,990 --> 00:54:15,059
tend to think of us and Them

1299
00:54:20,750 --> 00:54:18,000
but one way to think one might think

1300
00:54:22,670 --> 00:54:20,760
about it is that there's some kind of a

1301
00:54:24,530 --> 00:54:22,680
coming together that is a relationship

1302
00:54:27,069 --> 00:54:24,540
and that the intelligence that's

1303
00:54:29,870 --> 00:54:27,079
bringing us together is not ours or

1304
00:54:33,470 --> 00:54:29,880
theirs that the motivational structure

1305
00:54:36,530 --> 00:54:33,480
is in some higher level or whatever and

1306
00:54:38,930 --> 00:54:36,540
that they get something from it

1307
00:54:42,109 --> 00:54:38,940
maybe some kind of embodiment some sort

1308
00:54:44,329 --> 00:54:42,119
of biological evolution and we get

1309
00:54:47,569 --> 00:54:44,339
something which is some opening of our

1310
00:54:49,250 --> 00:54:47,579
Consciousness some kind of re turn to

1311
00:54:51,970 --> 00:54:49,260
the sacred so that and that the whole

1312
00:54:54,589 --> 00:54:51,980
thing is orchestrated not at our level

1313
00:54:56,089 --> 00:54:54,599
uh and that maybe I'm just getting a

1314
00:54:58,910 --> 00:54:56,099
little Dotty because it's late at night

1315
00:55:01,210 --> 00:54:58,920
here but I I I really wonder if there

1316
00:55:04,270 --> 00:55:01,220
isn't another Consciousness some kind of

1317
00:55:07,730 --> 00:55:04,280
divine Consciousness that maybe

1318
00:55:10,309 --> 00:55:07,740
at work here and isn't us or them but

1319
00:55:12,650 --> 00:55:10,319
that we are in a program not of our own

1320
00:55:14,450 --> 00:55:12,660
making I mean that's the ultimate loss

1321
00:55:16,309 --> 00:55:14,460
of control

1322
00:55:18,829 --> 00:55:16,319
definitely

1323
00:55:20,210 --> 00:55:18,839
yeah I'd like to to actually attempt to

1324
00:55:22,670 --> 00:55:20,220
answer the question

1325
00:55:24,349 --> 00:55:22,680
it's my personal opinion of course but

1326
00:55:26,089 --> 00:55:24,359
starting from where John just left off

1327
00:55:28,670 --> 00:55:26,099
this lofty places where I'd like to

1328
00:55:31,130 --> 00:55:28,680
start as opposed to why this abductee or

1329
00:55:33,770 --> 00:55:31,140
that or this contactee why the whole

1330
00:55:37,309 --> 00:55:33,780
thing why the interaction going on

1331
00:55:40,069 --> 00:55:37,319
touching on this concept is that imagine

1332
00:55:42,890 --> 00:55:40,079
Humanity walking along the ground and

1333
00:55:44,750 --> 00:55:42,900
coming to this fence and we climb up on

1334
00:55:46,370 --> 00:55:44,760
the fence and I mean all of humanity we

1335
00:55:48,530 --> 00:55:46,380
climb up on the fence and for some

1336
00:55:49,970 --> 00:55:48,540
reason we liked it up there and instead

1337
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:49,980
of just sitting on the fence we've built

1338
00:55:53,870 --> 00:55:52,319
a Grand Tree House up there and we've

1339
00:55:55,130 --> 00:55:53,880
really entrenched ourselves on the top

1340
00:55:57,410 --> 00:55:55,140
of this fence

1341
00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:57,420
and uh maybe the reason that all of

1342
00:56:00,650 --> 00:55:59,040
these things are happening is because

1343
00:56:01,790 --> 00:56:00,660
somebody's saying you're you're not

1344
00:56:04,490 --> 00:56:01,800
supposed to be sitting on the fence

1345
00:56:06,829 --> 00:56:04,500
please get off and we're going no no we

1346
00:56:09,049 --> 00:56:06,839
like it up here we like it up here so

1347
00:56:10,490 --> 00:56:09,059
some of the people went some of humanity

1348
00:56:11,630 --> 00:56:10,500
said okay I'll get off and we jumped off

1349
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:11,640
and went on

1350
00:56:16,370 --> 00:56:13,440
and some of the people said no we're

1351
00:56:19,970 --> 00:56:16,380
Stan we like the fence okay so then

1352
00:56:22,609 --> 00:56:19,980
enter The Not So Nice influence that

1353
00:56:25,910 --> 00:56:22,619
says get off the fence and smack you off

1354
00:56:28,130 --> 00:56:25,920
of there both both types of getting off

1355
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:28,140
the fence are valid the point is get off

1356
00:56:33,290 --> 00:56:30,480
the fence and get moving get your

1357
00:56:35,210 --> 00:56:33,300
Consciousness going again and broaden

1358
00:56:37,130 --> 00:56:35,220
yourself and understand what what is

1359
00:56:38,930 --> 00:56:37,140
really going on and you can have some

1360
00:56:40,370 --> 00:56:38,940
nasty lizard aliens drag you on board

1361
00:56:42,170 --> 00:56:40,380
and do all kinds of rude things to you

1362
00:56:45,049 --> 00:56:42,180
and it might help get you off the fence

1363
00:56:46,970 --> 00:56:45,059
or you can say okay I'll get down and go

1364
00:56:49,750 --> 00:56:46,980
on my way whatever the whatever the

1365
00:56:52,670 --> 00:56:49,760
reasoning is maybe the whole thing is uh

1366
00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:52,680
is telling us to get to to get on about

1367
00:56:57,790 --> 00:56:56,160
our way and I think that 20 years ago it

1368
00:56:59,990 --> 00:56:57,800
was really easy to be a ufologist

1369
00:57:02,510 --> 00:57:00,000
compared to what it is now because back

1370
00:57:04,010 --> 00:57:02,520
then the phenomenon was over there it

1371
00:57:06,770 --> 00:57:04,020
flew around it landed once in a while

1372
00:57:08,750 --> 00:57:06,780
and we got excited about that abduction

1373
00:57:11,630 --> 00:57:08,760
phenomenon was something that was like

1374
00:57:12,950 --> 00:57:11,640
pretty bizarre in those days now it is

1375
00:57:16,430 --> 00:57:12,960
very personal

1376
00:57:18,170 --> 00:57:16,440
the UFO phenomenon is purse we are all

1377
00:57:20,990 --> 00:57:18,180
personally involved in one way or

1378
00:57:22,630 --> 00:57:21,000
another directly with this phenomenon we

1379
00:57:25,370 --> 00:57:22,640
have never been able to get information

1380
00:57:27,890 --> 00:57:25,380
directly from The Source before like we

1381
00:57:29,390 --> 00:57:27,900
do now meaning abductees contactees and

1382
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:29,400
the researchers are right there in the

1383
00:57:34,069 --> 00:57:31,680
middle of it as well so it is something

1384
00:57:36,349 --> 00:57:34,079
that we're all involved in and we can't